The Copywriting Board

Can a Good Copywriter still sell a Bad Product? At least for 1% conversion rate?

Hi Primo.

Well I guess, "bad" is not really the exact term. I kinda exaggerating it. My bad.

Let's say the product cannot be categorized into "desperate" stuff. Where market is not a rabid buyers.

The information in the product can be found online but was organized and compiled in this book.

I'm thinking about if I should drop the product marketing the product. It's just a feeling that I'm kicking a dead horse or the letter is just not good enough.

Thanks!

The answer is probably not...

Copywriting quality is far down the list of what's important when it comes to having a successful product.

By a wide margin having a product that people want tops the list...

Followed in order by the list targeted and the offer presented.

Heck there are many that offer good products to good lists with a strong offer that aren't getting a 1% conversion.

I've always read that the product is more important than the copywriting. That's why you'll see some poorly-written sites convert well; the product or the name behind the product is good.

That's not to say that you can't write killer copy that sells a "bad" product. However, if you've got a high refund rate, you're not getting the results you were hoping for.

I will go against the trend here and say: Sadly... yes.

I've done it. Not intentionally of course. But I've written great sales letters that pulled in hundreds of thousands of dollars and the product turned out to be crap.

As a matter of fact I did one pretty recently. Got the research... the proof of claims... the testis... culled "facts" from the ebooks and videos and wrote a pretty remarkable letter. Never veering from the facts as they told them to me, and never claiming anything that wasn't supported by proof. The letter converting in the vicinity of 8%...

But... from the feedback I've seen buyers are none too happy.

I don't know this for a fact but I have to believe returns are probably in the mid-double digit %.

So... yeah, I believe a bad product can be sold. The rub is... how much money will the marketer end up with after returns?

On a semi-side note: There's a classic that was sold in the National Enquirer classified. Not just a bad product, but pretty much a con job. It was the portable coat hanger. A bunch of benefits were listed in the classified ad (carry it in your pocket, tested to hold even the heaviest winter coat, can be used over and over again, etc.)  and you could get them for only $1 each plus s+h.

As the story goes... a small fortune was made and the marketer filled every $1 order, with a 3 inch long finish nail. (portable and you can hang a coat on it)

So yeah... I believe good copy can sell anything. Although... it's much much easier when you have a good product.

Yes, I agree with Vin. It's all too possible to write killer copy for a rotten product. There are a couple of corollaries, however:

* If you aren't too particular as to sticking to the truth regarding proof and credibility issues - or
* If you are conscientious like Vin and the client misleads you big-time - or
* If you write compelling copy without doing enough background research [such as trying out the product yourself]

I think [hope!] most copywriters are ethical enough not to want their good reputations associated with cruddy products. Can't see how that would help anyone in the long run. Or maybe it's a good way to get a reputation for a knock'em dead win-at-all-costs copywriter that can sell ice cubes to a walrus.

Dot

Or the guy who sold metal engraved portraits of Abraham Lincoln -- and sent them a penny?  But I hear the Post Office uh, nailed, that guy. :)

Live JoyFully!

Judy Kettenhofen, Profit Strategist/Copywriter
NextDay Copy

Yep.

To me a "bad product" isn't one that's not going to meet expectations, but one that people do not want- period.

That's a bad product and I don't think good copywriting is going to make a difference in driving demand for a product no one wants.

Hey guys. Without revealing the exact product, it is similar to say "text messages".

There are tons of FREE "text messages" example online, like, funny text message, love text message, etc. What I did is, I gathered it, categorized it, included some "text message" that can't easily be found online. It's 400+ pages.

As I said, not really bad product, but it's not something that people are desperate to buy.

Can this be sold at least 1% conversion?

I'm asking this because I'm in a point where I'm thinking to drop the idea or re-invest to a better sales letter? Which will cost me at least another $2,500.

Thanks!

- Jon
P.S. Maybe any good copywriter who can sell this for 1%? Instead of paying you upfront, I'll give all the sales for 2 months which is a clear profit between 5k-6k based on my current traffic.

JonOrana,

You can't guarantee results...ever. The best you can do is test it.

You don't have to have a product that people are "desperate to buy" in order to succeed.

The market determines if your product is something they want or need.

Buying a book full of template text messages... I'd say, no.

Young people buy cutting edge, innovative stuff at competitive or sometimes higher-end prices, if it's unique enough. (Using someone else's texts in your text messages is not considered unique in my book)

Older people come from a more authoritarian way of life and will buy stuff if they've been taught to believe they need it. There's good money to be made off that, because you can sell without having to be on the edge of things.

Example: They'll buy alternative health solutions, diet solutions or other information products that involve a student-teacher, expert-consumer kind of relationship.

Stick to the beaten path, don't reinvent the wheel and all that crap.

Jonarama,

IMO this is text message book is a pig. You won't make a thin dime with it.

Texters aren't going to pay for this.

If you're sure this is the market you want to (eventually) sell to, see if you can give that book out as a gift for opting in. See if you can build a list with it.

Guys, thanks for all the advice.

Guys,

Would you PLEASE read what he wrote. He NEVER said it was text messages. Geez!

My guess is that it is ring tones, which makes it much more viable.

I think he said it's a book, Bruce. 400+ pages. Unless it's a book of links to ringtones?

Anyhoo... Assuming the market demographic is the same, or similar to, the text messaging demographic... the only way I can see this being attractive to that market is if it's something so cutting edge, they can't find it anywhere else.

A compliation of stuff that you can find on the Web... I dunno.

This may be a pig that no amount of lipstick can make look pretty.

With a strong brand campaign and lot of kick-ass viral marketing you can make a "lukewarm" product "hot" (See: Red Bull, et al). But you've got an enormous amount of work ahead of you.

When all is said and done, though, it's hard for anyone here to give you any advice without knowing the product and the market. If your market is 20-somethings, take it to a bunch of 20-somethings (strangers, please!) and test it.

Bingo!

That might have some possibilities then.

I'm thinking I smell a Twitter campaign?

Have you got a back-end product planned Jon?

Can a good copywriter sell a bad product? Sure. Of course if nobody wants the product it doesn't matter anyways.

I don't think there is ANYTHING more important than a NEED/WANT for a product.

For example, just today I was looking for better ways to utilize 1ShoppingCart with different scripts, etc. I was doing my google thing and came across two websites. The copy sucked really bad. But you know what? I didn't give a crap.

For the headline, the dude could have said...

"I've got a cool script for 1SC, sign up below and I might tell you about it one day"

I would've read that and STILL gave me email address and prayed that he send me an email.

Bottom line, I'd focus on market need rather than worrying about if good copywriting can sell a crappy product.

But the answer to your question is YES, but is it even worth going there?

If it's ringtones, then test it!

Some bonuses would definitely help, here's some ideas:

- Your Phone Unlocked - A complete collection of sim unlocks for every major phonebrand from the last 5 years
- How to boost your reception everywhere - 5 simple steps to get the best reception, even in remote areas and large buildings
- Pimp Your Mobile - Java Games, tools and wallpapers to make your phone unique.
- Phone Secrets Only You Know About

(With tips like:

Free ways to...

- Use your phone as a modem for your laptop
- Transfer your favorite videos and series to your phone
- Get your CD's in mp3 and onto your phone
- Protect your new phone's screen
- Save, manage and transfer your contacts so you never lose them again
- Get the most out of your battery life
- Save your most special text messages (big one here)
- Learn to safely erase an old phone you're selling
- And the complete guide of what to look for when buying a new phone.

In fact, I'd turn this into a 'Phone lovers' package, with the information product up front (I love information marketing, I may be biased here, but I think I could sell this), and make the ringtones and the others mentioned all bonuses.

Can good sales skills sell something nobody wants?

Absolutely. How about pet rocks? Ginsu knives or a cookware set? Chamois?

I've "heard" of copywriters selling products that didn't even exist yet. Before I hear it, no it's not unethical with full disclosure no more than it's wrong to sell an empty lot where a house will be built some day.

To me it's about targeting the sales message to the market in a way that appeals to their need or want. Even if they don't realize it. For examples see the Geico or Allstate commercials. They're selling money in the future, maybe. How's that for selling something that doesn't exist?

Did anyone really need a pocket fisherman, Showtime Rotisserie (set it and forget it) or a Mr. Microphone? Probably not. Ron Popeil was a master salesman.

Let's go with the text messages theory. If that's so then I agree, young folks who may already know the lingo aren't going to need it. But what about the newbies, young and old, who haven't become savvy yet or are on the sidelines afraid to jump in and look foolish to all their friends? The copy practically writes itself. Hint: Ease of use is not the main attraction.

Cheers

I agree!

This sort of thing is pretty common with IM products. The sales letter promises you the world in them, projects the product as the next big thing, but all you get inside is some rehashed content or a simple technique blown up into a 80-page pdf.

If you're looking for a copywriter for a product where the quality is not necessarily bad but just the concept, method or idea is old, I suggest you hire a copywriter who is NOT familiar with the concept/niche.

I once wrote copy for a product where the concept was old in general, but still it was new to me. I had never heard about it before. So I was able to present the product in an innovative way and the copy converted at 7%.

But if I was already familiar with the concept, I wouldn't have been able to present it in an exciting way, right?

Exactly,

Being new means being at the same state of mind as the prospect. You dive into the subject, remember what you discover and then introduce the prospects to that world.

Not many 'vets' still carry that same enthusiasm, newness and fresh state of mind.

What you're really doing is paving the way for others, in a sense. The status quo in almost any field usually doesn't do this. Ivory towers and all that.

Depends....

if it was say "Flirty text messages that make them smile" ....
I think that could definitely be made a success.

Jackpot source for real free ringtones could also sell well at a low price point with credible presentation.

The answer is yes. Think about dry testing. The answer is still always going to be is your energy, money, and time better directed somewhere else?